What is your holy grail?

[griffisu]

The click on my 2050 is very solid, similar to other drafting pencils.

About the discussion between 2050 and 3050, in my opinion it is better to buy the 2050 than the 3050, because the extra price of the 3050 does not come with any extra features, the only difference will be the carbon fiber body. The rest is the same between them, it will be almost the same writing feeling, minus the lighter weight of the 3050.

This same argument I use for the 3051FF and 5050, the difference will be the FF mechanism. Although I don’t think it has a different writing feeling than the 2050 and 3050, its mechanism doesn’t exist on any other pencil and looks amazing, an incredible piece of engineering. My hope is that prices will come down at some point, but I think it’s impossible, the number of collectors only increases and the number of copies in the market only decreases. My goal is a 3051FF in blue color, however, in my time as a collector (last 2 years), I haven’t seen any new old stock copies for sale, has anyone seen them and know the price range? Same as the gray color or higher? Because I’ve seen unused examples of the gray color and of the 5050, but I haven’t seen the blue one, so I suppose the price might be even higher.

About the Dive, I have one and despite being an amazing pencil, the feeling when picking one up doesn’t come close to classic vintages. Also, it is too wide for the hand, which I dislike, if it were possible to have the mechanism in a design like Automac or Nero, it would be the best mechanical pencil. Hopefully Uni will be able to make a more slender design in the future.

[cytherian]

From what I understand, the 5050 comes with the fingertip advance feature as on the 3051FF. Someone once explained why the 3051FF came out… which was after the 5050. It might’ve been for lackluster 5050 sales, to introduce the FF mechanism in the lower priced 3050, hence 3051FF.

They were relatively very expensive back even 8 years ago. Based on the slow, gradual progression of collectors and bid wars, prices weren’t going super high very fast. There were spikes here and there, but usually if you just waited you could get one of these at or below the average price. Then about 3 years ago or so, the wave came. Many more bidders coming from other Asian nations, plus the advent of multiple affordably priced proxy buying services. But I think the largest influence was an intense, active group sharing of experience among a few collectors, which drew in more collectors, and many with deep pockets who bid aggressively for fear of prices going even higher.

The 2050 went up also, but not nearly as much as the others.

What’s perplexing is when a pencil that had been deemed as 2nd or 3rd rate interest, languishing around an easily obtainable ¥2,000 to ¥5,000 range (depending upon condition), suddenly leaps up to ¥20,000+ for two auctions in a row. Fluke? Or Trend? I think a fluke in some cases.

I distinctly remember when I became very interested in the PILOT ProTex. It was going for around ¥20,000 on average. And it was like that for years. I think because the bulk of vintage collectors had been mostly fixated on drafting style pencils. The “executive” style was less important. Now? It seems anything is game. The ProTex top auction price broke ¥66,000 just 8 months ago.

[2nd_astronaut]

@griffisu

because the extra price of the 3050 does not come with any extra features, the only difference will be the carbon fiber body.

ahemm, but the carbon body is a feature which looks great in real life!

concerning prices, here you go:
Hi-Uni 5-3050 9851, 8250, 8351, 19500, 72000, 40000, 21500, 65000, 40000, 17204, 30000, 17204, 43000, 34300, 21554, 40000, 19300, 21500, 23505 (rot)
Hi-Uni 3-3050 5000, 7750, 15100, 32600, 13000, 25000, 29500, 32000, 31764, 36500, 47500, 28655, 31050, 53000, 32530, 16511, 20500, 19500, 75000
Hi-Uni 5-3051 10500, 15800, 8751, 20551, 45000, 56500, 95000, 79000, 301000, 127000 (blau), 100000 (silber), 69000 (blau), 35500 (schwarz), 64000 (schwarz), 66000 (schwarz)
Hi-Uni 3-3051 30500, 23400, 44396, 42500, 30500, 56000, 123000, 51000, 125000 (blau), 81000 (silber), 76000 (silber)
Hi-Uni 3-5050 11500, 13100, 13100, 7500, 35500, 30500, 60000 (kaputtes Finger-Knock?), 37000, 42000, 44416, 121000, 40000, 53000, 81000, 66000, 81000, 77000, 56128, 72558, 42500, 55000, 61216, 83000, 82500, 74000
Hi-Uni 5-5050 25000, 16000, 17400, 18510, 14000, 14000, 17000, 14005, 14000, 14000, 14255, 18509, 18010, 17789, 19554, 18000, 29000, 37510, 44000, 25200, 39000, 52873, 43775, 67000, 37500 (finger knock defekt), 86000, 81000, 61000, 65000, 75000, 83000, 52000, 56556, 38000, 61000, 77300, 61000, 80000, 108000, 81000, 211000, 73000, 204000, 203000, 79438, 79777, 85000, 134400, 94078, 77600, 64600, 93004, 33503, 55000, 180000, 30000, 60000, 41650, 50000, 51059, 33000, 60000, 51000

[cytherian]

Interesting… but if only… you’d also gotten the dates! That kind of historical info would be most helpful. Are they at least sequential? Do you know what might be the age of the earliest prices?

[2nd_astronaut]

they are sequential, the first prices are from ca. 2010. there are temporal gaps, and of course condition and accessories are missing (completely run-down pieces I don’t include, tho).

[cytherian]

Thanks! Amazing, the progression from 2010. Fascinating to see some of the price spikes, especially for the 5050. I think I remember some of them. The really big heavy hitters who spend many thousands, when totally NIB examples with all accessories turned up, pounced upon them.

[First_Sail]

I’m going to keep it modest with that one that Gary calls Pilot Streamline, I saw one the other day for around $100, but very rusty (do we know the model name?).

[cytherian]

Don’t get it.

The illusion is that the body is cast aluminum. But it’s all plastic. And really, they’re quite common. I picked up a mint MP+BP set for 6,000 JPY. Sold it for what I paid… because I felt so duped. I wouldn’t pay more than 3,000 JPY for the MP in mint stickered condition.

[drifand]

Still love the ‘Streamline’ but yeah… plastic mostly for the MP. The BP has metal in the lower half. Shame.

[RPD]

It reminds me of this pencil. I have no idea of the model name, but I believe this one is in aluminum. If you can find one (which is hard because there’s no text on the pen for the sellers to put on the title) it goes for as low as 1500 yen.

For those kind of minor/not chase models, I just browse mercari with シャーペン 廃盤 keywords and buy whatever seems priced reasonably well and catches my eye. I’m usually happy paying 1000-2000 yen for any design that I like. After you get used to how the website works, you can find a lot of hidden treasures.

[pearsonified]

The Pilot “Streamline Clip” comes up on Mercari pretty regularly; I’ve seen prices ranging from ¥800 to ¥6000. I would only pay ¥2000 or less for this absolute impostor of a pencil, which turns out to be very difficult to fit into Pilot’s vintage collection.

No other nice Pilot hybrids have plastic barrels, and the closest material analogue is probably the H-315 and H-325. The “0.5 PILOT” badging is borrowed from the stainless steel Pilot H1505 Namiki (etched stripes) and also their metal capped MP. The ribbing in the clip is a riff on the clips found on Pilot’s ¥8000+ lacquered, silver, and gold executives. The angled cut at the end of the barrel is reminiscent of Pilot’s 1970s executives.

Considering all this—and especially the curious fact this piece doesn’t really fit with anything else in the Pilot catalog—it’s possible this was a limited-run nod to different aspects of Pilot’s heritage.

[RPD]

I remembered this picture from Elton. And this isn’t even all of Pilot’s all silver “executive” models. The one I showed before is missing, and the aluminum clutch point is also missing (looks very close to #2 but it’s different). The “streamline” is the #12 on the photo.

I can see why you like the “streamline”, the shape on the back is very interesting, both because of the angled cut on the knock and because of the inset clip. Those kinds of shapes are very hard to do on metal, so the shape + price alone is a giveaway that it must be plastic. If you like that design, I’d say go for it (but at the right price, not 100 USD)

[cytherian]

Well said. I hadn’t consciously matched the various bits of cosmetic flair used on the Streamline to other models, but the combination definitely telegraphed a grade higher than it actually is. Impostor is a good word. Infuriatingly so. Then there’s that barrel seam… that sign often seen on cheap plastic pens where the maker fails to completely shave off the molding flash before the final treatment. I would have “kind of” tolerated this charade of a pen/pencil model if PILOT hadn’t left that shameful seam. But in all examples I’ve seen, it’s there. And now that I see it, I can’t unsee it.

[pearsonified]

That’s the Pilot Volex, which came in 0.3, 0.5, and a matching BP. Most of these seem to have been sold in sets. The MPs have sliding sleeves and are very nice.

To me, Pilot’s average executive is elevated above everyone else’s thanks to components, finishes, manufacturing processes, variety, etc. The Volex is yet another example of Pilot’s mastery of the fundamentals, with two parallel stripes and a handsome black branding mark on the clip providing unique flair.

[cytherian]

In the fountain pen arena, this pen has been nicknamed a MYU “Brother.” The MYU is the steel integrated nib short pocket fountain pen (I’m sure you know, just stating it for posterity sake). The Volex is not quite the “brother,” as the others that are made of black, white, red, and clear plastic. Those have the cap clip style that faithfully matches the steel MYU. The Volex FP doesn’t have that clip. BUT… it has the same nib as the MYU brother pens. It’s a very nice little pen… with one main flaw–posting the cap causes lots of patina to the body. So, if you use it… don’t expect it to keep a good collectible value. Anyway, the BP and MP match the FP well. Makes a nice trio set.

[RPD]

@cytherian

I would have “kind of” tolerated this charade of a pen/pencil model if PILOT hadn’t left that shameful seam.

I can’t see the seam on the photos above, but I guess it’s somewhere lengthwise?
That is because of how injection molding works. I’m not an expert by any means, but the visual image we should have is “pump plastic inside a mold, and then somehow chuck it out”. The mold is made of two or more pieces, that fit together and leave a gap for the hot plastic to be injected in. This will always leave a seam + two dots where the plastic is injected, the trick is camouflaging both of those as well as possible.

The most common trick for doing so is making the seam horizontal to the pen body, and make the pen body taper slightly so that it can release easily from the mold. If the pen doesn’t taper, it can’t be released. If you measure plastic pens with apparently no taper, they always taper a bit, even if it’s 0.2mm. For example, take the Pentel Mechanica. The black plastic on the back tapers towards the back, and the seam can’t be seen because the two mold pieces precisely meet where the plastic piece ends (the seam would be where the plastic piece meets with the metal grip). Perfectly straight tubes can’t be injection molded like this, other techniques have to be used (which I don’t know).

Now, just looking at the shape that they chose for the streamline, it can’t be done like this. It tapers towards the back, but the back then suddenly becomes thicker. So the only way to make those shapes is by making two mold pieces for the outside + the one for the inside, so that when they separate from the sides the plastic piece can be removed. Unless the tolerances are exceptionally high, this will leave a longitudinal seam line on the plastic piece.

[RPD]

Oh I see, thank you! I have one of those MPs but I didn’t know the name.
Pilot Volex… I have seen the fountain pens a lot. If I’m correct, Myu was one price tier above the Volex, right?
I’m still on the look for a Myu MP. I think they’ve only been made in 0.5. But it’s all stainless steel, so it should hold up better than aluminium.

[pearsonified]

Yes, the Myu series includes at least 3 stainless steel MPs: MR, YR, and U (slimmer and more traditional, whereas the other two are more “young” designs). And then the stainless steel etched dot matrix is, to my eye, the same chassis as the MR and YR.

[cytherian]

It’s a bit hard to see in photos… which is the deceptive thing about it. But once in hand? The ability to give an analog roll of the body in adequate light? The seam becomes immediately perceptible. It runs along the side. And yes, I think it’s a byproduct of the injection molding. I think they cut corners and just didn’t finish it off. You can see in the closeup photo, I embedded a magnified view of the side. You can easily see the seam in that part.

I really love the look of this pen & pencil duo, because of the integrated clip. The arc reminds me so much of a 1960’s vintage Corvette C2 hatchback.

[cytherian]

Technically it’s called the MUREX series, which has the MR long fountain pen with integrated nib, and then the MYU short fountain pen with integrated nib. “MYU” is for “µ”, the Greek letter, which is diminutive and thus reflective of being smaller than the MR.

The YR and U series don’t have integrated nibs in the fountain pens.