Out of curiosity, what's your take on the recent public UFO/UAP reveals? I'm still a skeptic

I really like the folks here and observe a lot of really good friendly and civil interaction on all kinds of subjects (outside politics and religion of course, which are rightfully discouraged). So, I thought why not toss out a carrot for a conversation about something that is bugging me.

I’m a sci-fi nut. But, I’m also a big fan of real science. I often look at sci-fi with a scrutiny of plausibility. The more plausible, the more I enjoy it. Of course, that’s all tempered with certain suppositions. But generally, there are well known laws of physics that should never be violated, only “stretched a bit.”

When I was a kid, I was all keen about the possibility of UFO visitations and wanted so much to be one of the lucky ones, to either directly observe one or even get a chance to meet extraterrestrials. As an adult, my position has changed tremendously. And what really bothers me is that unless there’s some incomprehensible tech that allows for biological beings to do “slip stream” travel, across many thousands of lightyears in a mere instant, there is no feasibility for biologicals to travel the cosmos. It’s too resource burdensome, would require safe cryogenics, and the beings doing it would essentially sacrifice their relationships with family & friends to choose journeying among the stars for their lifetime… presuming they’re not bioengineered or maintained for perpetual life. Any society of beings that evolves to the point of being able to develop technology together have to be friendly and civilized to each other. Their mental makeup would include socializing and dependency. But yes, we can assume there are some people who are very independent, social loners, and willing to leave everything behind for the chance to explore something they’d never otherwise get to do. It’s a “one way trip,” of sorts. But is it worth the risk?

Given all that… my take is, biological space travel is way too resource intensive, complicated, and risky. So, the only thing that really makes sense is to send out deep space probes, possibly governed by AI that’s onboard, and perhaps even incorporated in mechanical mobile devices that can move about like living beings.

In Star Trek, we have the “Prime Directive” premise. This is of course a human contrivance. There’s no guarantee a real space faring advanced species would abide by it. However, the scientific approach would prohibit it purely for the sake of preserving something for long range study. Influencing a subject by demonstrating your presence or leaving behind artifacts contaminates the subject… rendering it flawed for further analysis. And we’ve seen that for ourselves on Earth with Cargo Cults – primitive people in very remote places who are totally ignorant of what’s going on across the rest of the Earth, who then get contaminated by accidental cargo drops, intended for a known civilization but lands among these people who then get to enjoy the contents with new reverence to the “Sky Gods.” Some such Cargo Cults have self-destructed, because of useful artifacts left behind invoke extreme jealously and ultimately violence.

The point being, a highly advanced civilization able to discover Earth, would have the sophistication to do it totally clandestine. They’d be sure to avoid detection, or if detected, be able to camouflage as something terrestrial to avoid being construed as alien. The premise of such crafts visiting Earth actually crashing, with the remains able to be discovered by humans… seems preposterous. But being spied by accident? Sure. Every type of intelligent species must be capable of error.

So, we get a Congressional hearing where several men confess that yes, UAP’s are real and biologics have been recovered. That would mean, the species solved the biological resource problem somehow, in all likelihood a “slip stream” method of instantaneous travel. That’s very far-fetched, though. And lastly, what of CONTAMINATION? They never really talk about that. We’ve seen what can happen when an invasive species comes into a new territory–no natural predators. The species then proliferates and destroys other species. Same is true for viruses and bacteria. We would have NO defenses. The only rare situation would be that the alien biosystem is so very different from ours, it can’t interact and therefore can’t attack our biology, nor our biology affect them.

Another thing that seriously bugs me is this: NO SIGN OF TECHNOLOGY. Our age of electronic scientific advancement is so recent and so short, relative to human civilization’s history, that there’s not enough time for it to reach any intelligent life out there in the cosmos that might detect it and then come take a look. We’re also not in the “thick of things,” meaning we’re quite far from the galactic center. Coming out to see Earth would be extraordinarily difficult to luck upon… because no technological flags are out there calling for attention.

And finally… USABLE RESOURCES. Presuming aliens have been here, even as just AI driven probes, they know about this gem called Earth. We’re a very rare kind of planet. It’s immensely special. So… knowing how there’s a good chance for exploitative aliens to be out there, why haven’t they come and just taken planetary resources with ease (because we can’t stop them)? Or, why haven’t they just landed and set up an impenetrable zone where they choose to live and just ignore the “pesky primitive humans”? So of course, that hasn’t happened. Which then brings us back to detection and also feasible biological transportation for colonization. If they’ve not come and taken over, then perhaps… it’s because the simply can’t be here in person.

So that’s my “UFO” dump. :alien::sweat_smile:


“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

  • Arthur C. Clarke

I agree with on when you say biological space travel is way too resource intensive, complicated, and risky. But you are talking about biological space travel as we know it.. I’m hoping they have a better way but it would make sense (assuming that they are true) that a “grey” could be a biological droid/probe.

But from a practicality POV, I’m still not 100% convinced the UAP footage recently released isn’t a software glitch, or a “ghost” signals/reflection etc. most of those planes have some crazy neat avionics and who knows what kinds of “shadows” or reflections they cast.

I’m like the old poster: “I want to believe” but I need more physical evidence. I hate to say it but video footage and testimony only go so far.
The nerdy naïve Star Trek fan in me assumes “the government” has that in control.


I think it’s all completely fake :nail_care:t6:


The OP is very thought-provoking and logically organized. The only thing I’m noticing/questioning is this.

We’ve been beaming out “come see us” radio signals for a long time, and we’ve even sent out Chuck Berry records for a “wider audience” come-on. I don’t think any "advanced civilization"would be able to pass up an encounter with a civilization sophisticated enough to come up with Chuck Berry records.

(Not to mention, Blind Willie Johnson’s “Dark Was The Night, Cold Was The Ground,” a genuinely spine-tingling slide guitar masterpiece.)


“A long time” relative to a human life. But our lives are painfully short. And the cosmic vastness so enormous.


On the topic of “what are we currently spreading, for real, throughout the Galaxy”, an interesting chart can be found in this comic by xkcd.

Besides, as was pointed out elsewhere, the hassles of travelling very long distances in relatively short time might be peacefully sidestepped by advanced civilisations able to spoil some promising physical tricks — the most notable examples are the Alcubierre metric (commonly known as the “warp-drive” metric), the Lorentzian Wormholes (see e.g the scientific monograph by researcher Matt Visser sporting this very title), and whatever magic can be extracted out of supposedly “natural” time machine spacetimes as e.g. the Dirac string, the Van Stockum or Gott infinite dust cylinders, and even the celebrated Gödel universe or similar exotica (it is true, though, that most of these oddities are just mathematically possible models, and ought to require very weird types of matter to propel actual engines or similar contraptions allowing for hyper-fast travel: none of such ideas has been discovered in the real world, tested, or even remotely observed indirectly so far).

I’m not against the idea that other species could have advanced enough in terms of scientific progress to play with cosmic-lenght-range travel; at the same time, I’m not sure that the Earth and its inhabitants, no matter how special we see it, might be of some interest to such advanced aliens, which could be much more into deciphering the innermost secrets of quantum gravity, or the idea of something beyond the boundaries of our own physical universe.

Being the rare and quirky oddities that we humans are, maybe our cosmic relatives have just decided to keep us like guinea pigs in a relatively small cage: they observe us like we would see a colony of ants crawling in and out of their nest, without any need to intervene. And just as we think the ants are probably beneath us, even if they look interesting in their way of living their lives, the things from outer space might want to keep a safe distance between our worlds, while still enjoying Chuck Berry’s records from afar.

Still, I hope that we are not the exception in this entire universe, just a specimen in a larger set. :slight_smile:

True dat, which is why I listen to Chuck Berry every chance I get! There she is again standing over by the record machine…

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I believe we’re the tip of the spear, virtually invisible to others (if they exist, which is doubtful in itself, they’d be always more primitive). Since we’re talking about distances/Time and the impossibility of seeing ahead, I have a hard time imagining simultaneous worlds mutually visible.

Does this make sense?

Dreamin’ up my Chevy and my ol’ blue jeans?

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This is often the hardest thing for people to comprehend. Relative time on extremely vast scales. If we were to somehow, miraculously, pick up a radio signal that emanated from technically advanced intelligent life originating somewhere in the cosmos, it would be information that is over half a million years old, possibly even more. And if they were miraculously still around, by the time they get any reply from us, we could easily have gone extinct by then… assuming they haven’t gone extinct by the time our message got to them. It’s so hard to think like this, because our lives are so conditioned for relative immediacy.

Imagination is a powerful thing. We have used it to invent so much. But we can also imagine the impossible. We often do. The depictions we’ve made of science-fiction futures can look so amazingly real and plausible, but notice they’re almost always in the scope of how we live and perceive life today. Even Star Trek episodes… wrap up so neatly, like an Earth bound show. Because to make it realistic would be way too complicated for the target audience. One series that sort-of tapped into this is Foundation [link]. Asimov’s book series was on an epic grand scale of time. It’s closer to how things would really be. But still, biased and compromised in order to deliver entertainment.

Has anyone here seen “Encounters”? It does raise a lot of questions, regarding alien visitation. But of course, it is rife with the usual failings of myopia.

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This is true if we are limiting ourselves to corporal constraints and physics as we understand it today. But IF (and that’s a damn big if) they are real, I bet they are ultraterrestrial and occupy the same space-time as we do, but just interdimensionally transposed.


Lookin’ like a model on the cover of a magazine. Chuck Berry remembered when rock was truly young!

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True. There is also the matter of non-linear time. But manipulation of space-time in a non-linear fashion introduces so much complexity, not the least of which is the necessary power to manipulate it. But who knows – perhaps there is a quantum “free lunch” just waiting to be discovered.

I once read that extraterrestrial intelligence wouldn’t be worried about non-interference, just as we don’t worry about disturbing or destroying complex societies in the ant world. They would come here, take what they need, and basically not waste time trying to be hidden. Given how elusive hard evidence has been, it makes you wonder. Still no clear, detailed video of sufficient length and context to make it irrefutable. When today, video recording devices of strong resolution are within reach of most people (unlike 20 years ago).

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For the record, I believe that our language —speech— is what is making it impossible to have a bigger perspective about Space things. The effort should be on expanding it, but there’s virtually no way to do that in a feasible manner because our language relies on experience, being actually there (and not abstract things like Maths and comparisons and etc).

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Well, that’s true with any subject that takes on existential or highly speculative premises. Language is limited. But also, language enables. In fact, it helps one model thought. Many anthropologists believe that language development (which is organic), led to higher trains of thought, and that in turn helped drive our evolution to our level of sentience.

I think a major problem is that the portion of the population really conversant on astrophysics and cosmological science is very small. The rest of us have trouble fathoming what they can visualize, debate, and postulate. It may be akin to trying to understand quantum physics with only a basic understanding of conventional physics.

And lastly, forums are also problematic debate platforms.